Greatest American Dog Week 7 Recap
The anticipation for this week’s Greatest American Dog ran high amongst the Hoefinger clan. I don’t know if our dogs were more excited or Lisa and I.
Why the anticipation? It was puppy week! Let me just say, if you like to see puppies frolicking about, this week did not disappoint. If you like to see two judges go at it, then you were in luck there too.
But first, to the dog bone challenge. Two teams, randomly selected, worked together to free one of the owners in a box. Basically one dog needed to ring a bell and the other dog had to climb into a pit and dig for a release lever.
Star (and Bill) and Presley (and Travis) managed to beat Andrew (and Lori) and Galaxy (and JD) by 12 seconds, doing it in a minute and a half. The last team Leroy (and Teresa) and Bella Starlet (and Beth Joy) failed to complete the competition. Unfortunately, they still released Beth Joy from the box to continue on to the next event. Hold the mail, I’m just kidding!
One of the perks this week for winning the dog bone challenge was a phone call home. This resulted in two, yes two, teary eyed calls home. Very touching. In addition, the leg up this week allowed the winners to get an advance look at the following day’s challenge. The challenge? Herding a group of three puppies through a maze in the fastest time.
Acclimating Presley and Star to the golden retriever puppies was a lot of fun to watch. I could have watched Presley playing with the pups all night long. Star? She really wanted no part of the action. I will say, seeing those pups so full of life and joy really put a big smile on my face. I think I’ll have to re-watch that segment tomorrow morning before going to work. People will wonder why I’m so happy.
On to the challenge. JD and Galaxy were up first. I thought they did an incredible job. JD had 5 minutes to acclimate Galaxy with the puppies. At the end of the five minutes, JD went to other side of the maze and the game began. JD called Galaxy and every 10 seconds or so had her sit to let the puppies catch up. It took two trips through to get all the puppies, but in the end they were all corralled.
The second amazing performance was by Teresa and Leroy. Teresa decided on a low key approach and coaxed Leroy through the maze with her voice. All three puppies followed him like he was the pied piper. The sight of those three retrievers just bouncing along behind Leroy was fabulous.
Lori and Andrew got one puppy and Bill and Star got one (it may have been two). The other two failed to guide any puppies through the maze.
So the bottom three for the week were Travis and Presley (0 pups), Beth Joy and Bella Starlet (0 pups) and Bill and Star (becasue he pushed Star a little further than she really wanted to go). The decision was pretty easy, after a teary eyed farewell Beth Joy and Bella Starlet were on their way home.
On to the controversy of the week. During some down time, we were given a peek at a discussion between Lori and JD about the methods used to train dogs. Lori thought JD’s methods were fear based. JD indicated the methods he uses work, and it’s not like he hurts the dogs he trains. Lori likes to use positive reinforcement when she’s training Andrew. It’s a hot topic in the dog training world and opinions from experts vary.
But that wasn’t the controversy. It happened during the judging. Wendy praised JD and his work with Galaxy. Victoria jumped in and said she had issues with his training methods. She’s clearly in the positive reinforcement camp. A few exchanges back and forth, some uncomfortable silence and we went to commercial! Upon coming back, Wendy stroked Victoria’s ego saying she’s the best trainer out there. End of conflict, at least in front of the cameras.
I don’t know which method is better, but I do know that I prefer the positive reinforcement method that Bo uses when he trains me.
I’m sure there will be a few comments here about this week’s episode, as well as the best way to train a dog. Be kind, be civil, be happy. Beth Joy is gone.
Still voting for starr, but don’t know if i can STAND another week with those
ABSURD JUDGES
Felt this weeks trial was a bit lopsided. After all, Leroy is a herding dog. Star just didn’t like the puppies.
So happy that FINALLY Beth Joy and Bella Starlet are gone! *does happy dance*
The female judges grate on my nerves. The male judge seems to offer consistent, well-balanced opinions. The female judge that always has the white dog on her arm is the worst. She comes off extremely snooty, and while some of her remarks may have merit, she seldom delivers them in a respectful manner. She’s very abrasive and I would have a hard time holding my tongue around her.
I was really surprised that Star was so standoffish with the puppies. Wish I had bet someone on Leroy because he performed that task exactly as I thought he would. If you haven’t seen Theresa and Leroy’s audition vid, you should check them out. They are both amazing.
Bill and Star all the way!
Saw Teresa’s tape, and loved it
If they have this show next year, I will not even
start watching it if the same judges are there.
never seen such self absorbed people….
It is suppose to be about the dogs
So, what the heck had the British judge so wrapped around the axle about JD and Galaxy??? Other than the argument between JD and Lori (mostly Lori) at the very beginning about rewards vs. praise, what on earth had her so upset about how JD handled the maze?
He was positive, used great verbal commands to get Galaxy to stay/wait, and he never used any intimidation tactics. She was doing all those great things we see in herding and field exhibitions — listening and watching, changing directions, etc., all with verbal and visual cues. She led every puppy to the exit and got a big fat hug at the end.
What was up with judge and her tsk tsk attitude?
And that maze challenge was weird. It was like they were docking the dogs who didn’t know they were supposed to rescue Timmy from the well. All the other weeks, the judges complain if the dogs don’t have a rapport with the owner, and then this week, they expected all of them — even the non-herding dogs — to suddenly be responsible enough to round up all the children.
I am besidge myself with glee that BethJoy is gone! I have no problem with Bella ( it’s not her fault her owner is well…fill in your thoughts here.) I’m just glad we don’t have to listen to another week of her justifying herself, but I don’t think she can top this weeks, “Bella was rescuing the puppies” while we sat and watch the dog’s hind end as she plowed through the bush in an effort to get the “treat” and “car ride” she was bribed with.
I love all the dogs, but I just love looking at Presley’s face!!!
I think the show has potential, but it’s not quite reaching it between the host & the 2 women judges. Some of the challenges are naturally easier for some types of dogs — for example, Leroy is a herding dog and by nature he would bring the puppies along (not to detract from Teresa’s relationship with him which is good). It’s just that not all dogs have that instinct, and so they should try to come up with challenges that demonstrate the owner & dog relationship without an emphasis on a skill that is such a strong instinct in some dogs and not present in others. I hope they learn from the things that are not working this season and make some necessary changes next year.
I can’t stand that English judge. I agree get over yourself. I too am glad Beth Joy is gone. What a whiner. Always crying. There are many different ways to train a dog. It also depends on the group the dog is from. Positive reinforcement is probably the best but just like with kids sometimes discipline is in order. I don’t mean physical abuse but a voice that says I need you to do this now is called for. And I think those judges contradict themselves. First they don’t want human characteristics attributed to the dogs and then they want human feelings. The painting scene was a joke.
YEA….. the drama queen is gone!!!!! <My rescue has issues, but I don’t cry a river if she acts up and pray she’ll bite me if I put her in ridiculous clothes. Older dogs don’t like pups, it’s OK. Starr is still a star in my book. Galaxy likes his job, but I don’t really care for JD. Leroy did good, like his breed should, and loved his audition video. Pressly and his owner have the potential to be another Bill and Star down, which is a great tribute to the pair.
Apparenty JD and Galaxy are pros, so want the amatuers, Bill and Star to win. Love triumphs over scruffing!
Some things about this episode seemed a bit off. Through out the show they have been preaching good connections..but when Presley clearly just wanted to get to Travis, they jumped all over him…I understand that he didn’t do the contest really, but it seemed a bit extreme. Also I disliked the reactions of the contestants and judges when one of the dogs was standoffish or snapped at the puppies. A lot of dogs (especially older dogs, or smaller dogs than the puppies) have no patience for puppies because the pups have no social boundaries..It is easy to say that dog is mean for snapping at a cute puppy, but I thought the judges should have mentioned that.
Wow all this negative feedback! Who am I kidding, I’ll be back next week!
I love the show, but it is a bit unfair to some types of dogs. Of course, the border collie, a herder, won leading the puppies. Star resented the puppies as an older dog. The little dogs haven’t had a fair chance. I have a border collie so I am rooting for LeRoy.
I had to find a blog so I could vent!! Aren’t you lucky. Each dog behaved in an understandable manner last night. None of them were trained for this and I’d come to believe that this show was about the training??? OR is it??
Actually I’ve lost track of WHAT the show really is about. Leroy was great but he wasn’t waiting for the puppies, he was just going slow and steady thru the maze. I personally thought that Presley would have gone back and brought the pups with him on command. JD did a great job from some trainers points of view. Despite his methods his dog focuses on him and seems to have a bond with him. I just don’t like him as a person.
But I’m with you all….Bella Starlet and Beth Joy are gone, shoulda been a LONG time ago.
I think Leroy just happened to have a good little trio of puppies that followed him through the maze that well. I really feel it had nothing at all to do with him or Theresa. He was obedient and capable of finding his way through the maze and those puppies were little troopers to follow him. Some of the other puppies followed or tried to follow the other dogs, but there were those who just wanted to play and be goofy. In short, it was plain luck. Galaxy at least obeyed JD when he had her sit and wait for the puppies–there was some communication and cooperation. I agree with you who have said that a couple of these contests were silly or meaningless. Please–more dogs, less of this “Survivor” pulp.
Bill and Star, Travis and Presley, are who make me want to watch every week. It is clear that each have compassion and they love their dogs as much as Star and Presley LOVE their owners. With these two contestants it makes watching this program a “look forward to tv event in our house. The two female judges are a real turn off but the dogs and their masters make that bearable. It is hard but Bill and Star are the ones I am pulling for.
Oh, and if I’m not mistaken, Beth Joy’s exit also means the end having to see otherwise dignified dogs wearing dresses, right?
I believe Victoria (the British judge) made her comments based on Wendy (snooty one with the lapdog on her arm) saying “Move over, Cesar Millan” in reference to JD’s rapport with Galaxy. As Cesar Millan is known to use a harder hand when training/rehabilitating dogs, I think that’s where her comments came from and not so much about JD.
The “cat fight” between the judges was due to the comment about Ceasar Millan, which i think is brilliant. but to be a judge on the show and not like to be JUDGED…is crazy. too bad the commerical break had to happen.
last nights show was great! so glad to see bella star go, she was so stressed. Travis saves her from being expelled and she thanks him by snipping at him. she needed to go home and relax and get back to her norm.
the puppies were so adorable. my boxers would have done the same as Presley. just get to the end would be their goal. Bill was rough on Star; and he knew it was gonna be difficult cause she had nothing to do with the puppies. LeRoy was awsome as was Galexy. Galexy listens to commands; thats why we train the dogs right? Leroy has it in his blood; which my hubby pointed out and shouted out numerous times at the TV. haha but over all; it was fun to watch the puppies bounce behind Leroy.
on a different note…i wonder if Travis has contacted Prestons owner (cannot think of her name). haha competition is getting tough….im partial to boxers so I say Travis and Presley all the way.
I think Kate is right about where Victoria’s comments came from — they were aimed more against Cesar the Dog Whisperer than at JD, but if I’m not mistaken, she did say she had issues with Jd’s methods, which I thought was ridiculous considering all he did was call Galaxy and ask her to sit and stay. It seemed as though Victoria was using the occasion as an opportunity to vent her spleen about differing methods of dog-training.
But if I have to take a side on the training issues, I’m with JD and Cesar. They seem to have a much better understanding of dogs and their social dynamics. I have experience training horses, not dogs, but the principles seem similar: you must base your training on the social dynamics and instincts of the animals. This does not necessitate being overly harsh. Dominance training should not be confused with bully tactics. Herd and pack animals are looking for leadership, and they will follow the one they deem to be the dominant entity, whether you are trying to be that entity it or not.
But here’s what I’d really like to see: a reality show for professional dog trainers, including Victoria Stillwell and Cesar Millan. Wouldn’t it be fascinating to see who could get better results training dogs for various tasks? Now that would be a great show.
So Ms. Stillwell is a god of dog training and her way is the only way, at least that’s what she said during her hissy fit. I’m gonna have an even harder time taking her seriously than I already did.
Travis and Laura look like they are going out! I found a link yesterday of the dogs surfing together!
http://www.youtube.com/user/PrestonCasanova
New female judges are DEFINITELY needed for next season! That catfight and subsequent “make-up” following the commercial break looked staged for the viewers at home. This is NOT “American Idol” (thank goodness!) and the sniping and condescending manner in which the female judges react is distrubing for PEOPLE to witness. i can only imagine what it does for the dogs!
In addition, why is it that the puppy herding was the ONLY activity that the dogs seemed to be judged on? Bill and Star’s team recorded the winning time on “Timmy in the Well” and I don’t think that was even taken into consideration at the final judging. And the herding the puppies “test”? Everyone is right… Leroy is a herding dog, and it’s instinctive in them. An unfair advantage to Leroy, whom I like a lot, by the way.
I’m so glad Bella Starlet and Beth Joy are gone. I love that little dog, but Beth Joy cries all the time… and not in the same way that Bill sometimes cries for his wife. You get the feeling that Beth Joy would cry at card tricks.
I’m rooting for Bill and Star. I love their bond and the way she responds to him at every event. She wants so much to please him that she’ll go the extra mile every time… and she’s nine years old (that’s 63 in dog years)! In this competition, she’s gotten him to see and do things he would probably never have attempted - the painting, the dance routine, even the herding exercise - it’s like watching two old friends leave the park bench and drink from the fountain of youth, relying on each other to help them as they become younger right before our eyes.
Bill and Star - all the way!
Ding dong Beth Joy is gone!!!!
The judges? Well, I guess the producers had to focus on some kind of drama to keep us talking it up, right? I respect all of the judges when they are speaking with knowledge of the fields they represent, but they don’t necessarily need to be judges of this type of competition. They don’t seem to be able to leave the fangs at the door. BOTH female judges need a lesson in manners and should get over themselves. The male judge seems to fairly judge the competitors. Go figure.
The competition this week? Well, I just LOVE puppies. Star’s reaction was very predictable. She’s an older girl, much like me, and she’s too old for bouncing babies! lol The competition events were WAY better than painting. At least the events focused on a dog’s ability rather than an owner’s creativity or lack thereof.
Be-otchy judges or not, we’ll be back again for the next episode.
Nancy J is right….luck of the draw with the puppies. Leroy wasn’t doing any herding….he was in front (shrug). He just happened to have a trio of little ones who stuck together as they bounced along behind him. That’s NOT how you herd. This was a very wierd test, I thought. How many dogs are geared to leading/herding packlets of puppies? It’s not something that most dogs tend to do naturally unless you are a mamma dog (shrug). The most natural thing for a dog to do is flash through that maze to their person…like most did. Except for Bella Star ,of course, who was just a disaster. JD had a better puppy-calling approach, which helped, as did the Galaxy-sit bit, which helped the little ones key in on the moving big dog. Bill might have gotten all the puppies through the maze despite Star if he’d had a good, high-pitched puppy-puppy-puppy voice.
Overall, I’m most impressed with JD & Galaxy and Bill & Star. Not sure which I want to see win most but I’m hoping it’s one of the two. Leroy is third on my list right now.
Finally Beth Joy and Bella Scarlet are home…they both were annoying and these judges are ANNOYING. First they get into a fight and then after they start getting back together again. I don’t blame Bill…he wanted to have star get as many of the puppies out as possible with the amount of time he had. Star just did not like the puppies and there was nothing they could do about that no matter how hard you got Star to get used to the puppies but in my opinion i don’t think Bill pushed Star that hard. I am voting for Bill and Star to win! Star, Andrew, and Galaxy just do not do puppies. Obviously Leroy won because he is a true herding dog!
I’m amazed that everyone on this post thinks like I do! Go Bill & Star! We love ya! Orange dogs rule!
I’ll make a prediction: unfortunately, I don’t think JD and Galaxy will win this competition, because last night it became very obvious that Victoria is biased against his training methods. This is extremely unfair, though, because there is no judge to represent the other side of the training debate.
I would be happy to see either Bill and Star or Teresa and Leroy win. I am glad Bella is gone — it should have happened a long time ago.
I love star.
I love Bill and Star.
Bill is so loving to his dog and family.
I am voting for you Star and bill.
FINALLY! BETH JOY & BELLA STARLET ARE GONE! I was happy when Brandy & Beacon were expelled too! Couldn’t stand her high-pitched voice. At least there will be no more dogs on the show humiliated by wearing dresses and booties!
I was thinking the same thing, Haika - Leroy wasn’t herding those puppies. That’s not how a border collie (or any herding dog for that matter) herds livestock. Livestock do not FOLLOW them. I think it might have just been luck or perhaps the puppies just connected well to Leroy.
I’ve always been rooting for Bill & Star. He’s such a great guy and has such a close bond with Star. I think the competition was getting to him and he pushed her too much. Star’s reaction, as well as Andrew’s reaction were perfectly normal. Many older dogs will be quick to teach puppies not to get in their faces - it’s rude in dog language.
While I think that Galaxy is a very obedient dog, she seems like too much of a robot. All of the other dogs seem to have such personality - especially Presley, but Galaxy doesn’t seem to do anything that JD doesn’t tell her to do. I was so upset the week that Ron & Tillman were expelled because Ron wasn’t creative enough. And that week was about the dog’s personality! Tillman had more personality than any other dog there! He was a true dog, a canine companion with spirit, not a robot that can’t think for itself.
I’m in the positive reinforcement camp and I just had a feeling that JD used dominance to train his dog. It’s amazing to watch a dog figure out on their own what behaviors will get rewarded (using shaping methods) rather than being punished for unwanted behaviors. You can just see the light bulb go off and how happy and proud they look. Learning is fun for them!
Go Bill & Star!
I agree that Beth Joy is a silly drama queen, but I had to laugh when she was trying to coax little Bella Starlet in the maze. She tried everything from “wanna treat?” to “where’s daddy?” OMD I’m just like her!!!!
I’m another person checking in with the impression that Victoria’s comments were about Cesar Millan’s methods, not JD’s work with Galaxy.
I think Victoria is wrong to assume treat training always works. My dogs (a law enforcement bred GSD and an Anatolian) are good examples. I start every puppy and every rescued dog with treats and continue to use them to train new behaviors, but the technique often fails when they are faced with extreme distractions. A quick “alpha bump” or “alpha bite” gets their focus back where it belongs and isn’t abuse (my rescued Anatolian was an extremely abused dog and she’d completely shut down if it was).
I also agree with JD that a heartfelt “good dog!” can be as good as a treat for a reward. Training is all about what’s best for the individual dog, right? Victoria should keep an open mind.
I sure was happy to see Beth Joy go. She seemed on the verge of a breakdown and almost delusional — her comment to Travis about how Bella Starlet would have been singled out for special recognition for her painting; her idea that Bella was calling for help “like Lassie” during the reward challange (I don’t think Lassie would snap at the rescuer!); and her insistance that Bella was trying to help the puppies. Reality check please LOL.
This weeks show was quite interesting. After I got over the shock of the two judges going at each other, I cracked up!! You could see how embarassed the contestants were for them. I agree with everyone else, Star is an old gal and has no use for or interest in puppies. I don’t know who thinks up these stupid competitions, though i did love watching the puppies. While J.D. is not my favorite, I don’t know what that judge was so bent out of shape about, I agree with Abby, he used voice commands and gave Galaxy a big hug and praise at the end. As for Beth Joy and Bella Starlett, I think Bella had had enough and was ready to go home, I think it was too much stress on both of them.
Loved the you tube of Travis and Laura, watch out Tillman!! I think you may have some competition!!
I think many of us have worked with dogs that are NOT food motivated. I remember training classes where I was constantly having to pick up the food my Siberian politely took and dropped. I had to ignore the class learder and try to find a motivator that worked for her. Verbal praise was enough! ‘Really good’ was verbal praise and a little chest rub. That meant more to her than food. Anyone who has spent anytime at all with dogs quickly learns that ONE training method won’t work for ALL dogs. I just read an interesting book that made me think about reward training. It’s not directed to dog work but to exotic animal work but many of the principles crossover. ‘The Beauty of the Beasts’ by Ralph Helfer. He discusses the problems that arise from food reward training and promotes what he calls ‘affection training’. Some stuff to think about….
And I agree that these judges are unlikely to reward JD & Galaxy. Much of this show is really unfair. Dog ages/breed characteristics are introducing inherant bias and the judges seem to have a wierd agenda and/or strange criteria for making their judging decisions.
How interesting this episode turned out to be, as far as I am concerned.
The first drill had to do with how long the person in the wooden box would get saved. One dog would take care of one task, and the other dog would take care of the task that had to do with getting the person out of the box. Overall that had to do with timing (and of course skill). Star & Bill, and Presley & Travis came out on top for that.
Now… When it came to hearding the dogs out, it seemed to me that it was a combination of the skills of the dog, it’s owner, and the luck of the draw of which three puppies.
I thought Galaxy & JD were terrific. I really liked seeing Galaxy wait for the puppies to catch up and take his lead.
When I saw how it happened with Leroy, it just looked like he just wizzed by and the three little puppies just followed rather easily right on through. It was interesting to see that great contrast.
That darling Star, I can understand at her age having the attitude about those frisky puppies.
As for Bella & Beth I thought they’d be gone two - three weeks ago.
There are and will continue to be different methods of training dogs. I really like Cesar M. he has earned the respect of many. There again, there will be another way., what are the end results.
I feel there has got to be a different way for judging the events for each episode. Perhaps scoring points for each contest and at the end of the night, the partnership (because they come as a team - it is always talked about) with the the least points gets to leave, and the two with the most combined points for the night get the bonus/benifits.
P.S. I look forward every week to seeking thos program, and I’ll never get tired of seeing the sweet loving faces of those doggies.
At long last Beth Joy and Bella Starlett have departed. I only hope when she returns home, she lets Bella be a dog and doesn’t keep trying to make her a person. Poor animal is s
so CONFUSED.
As for the judges; where did they find these mean spirited people. Is it a prerequisite to have an English judge on every reality show on TV. Please, please, please don’t invite them back again!!!!! I can truthfully say I am cancelling my subscription to Dog Fancy. Now I know why it has become such a boring magazine. Because it has a boring editor at large!
And, please, can someone shut Lori up. Andrew is attached to her hip and is so totally dependent on her. He did not do well with the maze and seem confused with what she wanted from him. I’m really tired of her condescending attitude with people. Just because her methods of training work for her dog does not mean they work for others. I only hope it will be Lori and Andrew going home next week.
I don’t think that JD is a bad person. He is a talented trainer, loves his dog and Galaxy loves him. That is one of the reasons that she does the things that he asks of her.
I love Bill and Star. And Teresa and Leroy .
But, my favorites are Travis and Presley. They both have such a joy for life. At least Presley went back to get the puppies and did his best to do what Travis asked of him. He certainly deserves an A for effort. He’s still a puppy himself. And he just oozes personality!
We’ll be looking forward to next week!
Yep….I got gender confused with Galaxy….she reads like a male dog to me (scratching head). I was surprised to see that she is older (age 9) than Star (age 7). I’ve been impressed with how creative JD is when trying to deal with the challenges the show sets up. I like Travis and Presley but I don’t think they are show winners. He’s obviously got a lot going for him in his relationship with his dog, but they aren’t at the level Galaxy and Star are at with their respective people.
YES!!!! Bella and Beth Joy are finally gone!!! It drives me crazy how beth talked to Bella like a baby and tried to bribe her in the best in show challenge. I HATE the english female judge! I cant believe she would say she was the god of dog training! I personally love JD and Galaxy and I think that they did a great job! I think that if one thing needs to go its the judges!!!!!!
I would be happy seeing any of the final people winning except Laurie and Andrew. They are just annoying to me.
We are victoria stilwell fans so we supported her. Watching the episode again I believe the judge fight started over the name CESAR MILLAN (who i can not stand myself.) Victoria is the total oppoiste of Cesar as she believes in positive reinforcement.
We agreed completley with Victoria Stilwell and she even explains the reson behind the argument on her website forums.
Like all of my friends..they would love to watch the show but can’t stand those female judges esp. the one with a dog..just the look of her will make the viewer change the channel..we are just watching it because of BILL and STAR..they are an amazing pair and STAR seems to be the best dog of them all.GOOD LUCK ..Bill and Star..WE love you.
In behalf of all my Asian friends..we wish Bill and Star the best of luck…Bill and Star..take care ..We love you..
I am so glad that Bella and Beth Joy are gone. I think Lori and Andrew should be next. Then the competition can really begin. I hope they come up with some better challenges though. This week was so much better than the painting and dancing but I still felt that the challange was skewed. i would expect a a herding dog to bring all the puppies through and even though I love Leroy, I do think they just followed him. But if your dog is not a herding dog then how are you going to get them to bring the puppies through the maze? I didn’t get how they could have that expectation. And my dog would have snapped at the puppies too so I totally feel for poor Starr. Some dogs just don’t like to have exuberant puppies around then.
I also think Victoria was reacting about the Ceaser Milan comment. It’s too bad that the quarrel had to happen but the glossing it over kissy kissy part was even worse! LOL. I like Victoria because I am a fan of her show and her training has helped me so much. The other judge is a bit much for me.
I love Leroy to death, and I was very happy over his job this week. But, everyone’s saying that ‘of course the herding dog would win!’, he didn’t herd a single one of those pups. I think he just knew enough to move slow enough through the maze that the pups could keep up. Whatever he was actually doing, he did a wonderful job.
We love Victoria, and as a consequence, we are vehemently opposed to Cesar Milan. I train the same way she does, and some of the things I’ve seen Milan do are absolutely appalling.
On another note; I’ve decided to refuse to buy anything Wendy Diamond has a hand in. She speaks a lot, but says absolutely nothing. I feel she’s far too abrasive and can, quite frankly, be very rude.
I pitied Allan for being stuck in the middle of them this week during their spat, poor guy.
Seems like the fight between the judges was clever editing to go along with the story line of Lori and JD arguing earlier in the show, because it seemed to come out of nowhere. JD didn’t look like he was treating Galaxy bad to me.
Anyway, I’d like to see Lori and Andrew go next. She takes herself very seriously and it rubs me up the wrong way!
training? whats training? does it have something to do with teaching dogs to behave? If it does, I think I would be interested, my 8 do whatever they want whenever they want.
Victoria Stillwell was absolutely right regarding dog training methods. People who are using “positive reinforcement” are getting their information from Applied Animal Behaviorists who have either a PhD or a DVM — these are educated people, often ethologists, and they exclusively back scientific methods based on Learning Theory. None of them are in the Cesar Millan camp of dog training. In fact, they are vehemently opposed to it.
The “force” camp is outdated and unnecessarily hard on the dog, and their methods are not based on the science of how animals learn, but on “common sense”. This “common sense approach”, when peddled by goofy idiots like Cesar Millan, amounts to little more than one uneducated guy’s opinion. What is common sense to a human being can be hopelessly confusing to a dog — after all, they are a DIFFERENT SPECIES.
People who see positive reinforcement as ONLY treat training are missing the point when it comes to reinforcement — it’s not all treats all the time for every dog. Reinforcement = whatever that individual dog finds rewarding. My dog will work for a food treat, but is wild for a game of tug, so very often her “reinforcement” comes in the form of a few crazy-energetic seconds of Tug. I also reward her with things like opening the door so she can go outside or taking her for a walk — things I would be doing anyway, but that work beautifully to reinforce behaviors I like, such as “sit” or “wait”. There are certainly dogs who will work for a “good dog” and a scritch on the chest, but the majority of dogs need a bit more motivation than that.
In a tiny nutshell, here’s how it works: treats are used to lure/reward new behaviors, then you reduce the treats until you are not giving them so much, then you begin to substitute other things for rewards, like tug or “good dog”. If the dog isn’t able to do a behavior when distractions are present? Then the dog isn’t proofed and the behavior needs more practice with distractions present — it isn’t an excuse to jump right to the “do it or else” method.
Thing is, the dog is always being motivated by something, whether it is to win a treat/game of tug, or to avoid an aversive (correction). The idea that the dog performs any behavior simply because he has such deep respect for you as a person is completely ridiculous. Trainers who use force to train dogs often announce that the dog is doing it out of respect for the “alpha” instead of doing it for food. Truth is, the dog is doing it because he has learned that the trainer will give him a “correction” if he doesn’t. That is righteous fear — the fear of consequences, and it is a far cry from true respect.
Wendy Diamond doesn’t know squat about dog training, which is okay, she is not a trainer. JD does use outdated methods (scruff shake, no motivators other than trying to avoid a correction). The point is not whether they work, but whether it is necessary to use force when there are kinder methods available that are just as effective. It is a lot harder to justify using pain/startle/intimidation in dog training when you can get the job done with a cookie and tug toy.
I’ve seen JD give positive reinforcement with Galaxy. To say that he uses no motivators other than fear is inaccurate based on what has been shown on the show.
Also it may be useful to introduce the concept of intermittant reinforcement in this discussion. I remember that concept from my animal behavior classes back in the 70’s so it’s nothing new. Simply put, a reinforcer put on an intermittant schedule, i.e. presented randomly, is often a more powerful reinforcer than one presented each time. This intermittant reinforcement schedule can be introduced once the behavior has been shaped with the reinforcer.
None of the dogs I’ve worked with have been ‘food’ dogs (rough collies & Siberian huskies). It probably is worthwhile to note that some breeds aren’t that interested in tanking up on more food than they need, so trainers with those breeds are used to discovering unique, alternative reinforcers for each individual dog. That’s not to say that there aren’t rough collies or Siberian huskies that are motivated by food….I’ve just not had any.
There’s no shortage of strong opinions when it comes to dog training. Unfortunately, these discussions tend to disintegrate into being heated and angry. I support positive reinforcement, and I do agree that it’s definitely not about just treat training. It’s motivation. However, I do think there’s middle ground.
I have yet to see any evidence that the relationship between Galaxy and JD is aversive. I do not see a dog working to avoid a correction. I believe there is more to raising and living with a dog than teaching behaviors. I also think one should not look down upon “common sense”, or instinct, over being educated and following slavishly to the scientific camp. It’s great to have a base in that, and be educated, but there’s more to a relationship.
I do believe a dog needs leadership, but that doesn’t mean imposing your will, and being “dominant” over them. The human controls the resources. All the good things. Though I don’t think if a distraction is proving irresistible that it means automatically that the dog needs more positive training. I think a little social pressure is useful, and isn’t necessarily aversive. It’s like the “I mean it” mommy voice. Authoritative, not authoritarian.
So i’m into “relationship” training. Tailoring to the dog, and their individual personality. One size does not fit all. But the most important thing is the relationship you have with each other.