Rethinking Prong Collars — Not Mr Vick Not Pet Edge
If you, like me, are concerned about the use of prong collars, then check out this new blog — Not Mr Vick Not Pet Edge. Okay, the name is a bit strange but the reason for the blog is a good one.
I know many trainers and others use prong collars on large dogs with the idea that the added pain will help the handlers control the dogs. Unfortunately, that’s just not usually the case. Instead, prong collars can cause permanent and painful damage to canine necks by chipping vertabrae. As someone who has lived with large dogs most of my life, I can tell you that when large dogs become excited they are very unlikely to notice the pinching of a prong collar until they are being permanently injured.
Why? Because most prong collars end up on the lower part of dogs’ necks. If the collar is at the base of the neck, the handler really does not have control over the dog’s head, which means he does not have physical control over the dog.
I wish the site offered some options to prong collars. Just telling people NOT to do something is not nearly as effective as giving them options for change.
So if you have a large dog with control issues, please look at some other options such as Gentle Leaders and check out this new site.
I can’t even imagine why such a device would even be legal. It looks like a ring of slightly blunted barbed wire! Dogs, big and small, respond best to gentle, positive and consistent training. There are better ways to get their attention. These things should be outlawed.
I left a comment and I will be interested to see if I get a response. Why exactly have they singled out Pet Edge when many training collars, including slip (choke chain) collar and e-collars, are available from almost every pet store and online pet supply company. Kind of odd. Like you said, why not offer some alternatives or try to educate instead of going after one supplier? It’s an unpopular opinion in some dog communities but I do think prong collars have their uses (very large, pushy dog and very small owner, etc.) but they are overused (and improperly used) for everyday walking situations. But the same can be said of Gentle Leaders or Flexi leads or any other equipment that I see being improperly used by pet owners.
Well, I may not be very popular for saying this, but I personally use slip-chain style collars on my dogs, because it’s the only collar Iver found that truly works with my dogs.
We first tried a slip collar on my Min-Pin. We had tried harnesses, regular collars, gental leaders, and even Ceaser Milan’s special collar (named afetr his wife, I think) ans Sara would thrash and weasle her way out of all of them, and was completely uncontrollable on a lead.
We tried a slip chain and almost immediately, she calmed down and allowed herself to be led. Now, we use the combo type slip collars on our dogs, the type that are a standard collar with a small portion of it being a slip chain, and it works wonderfully. I never have any problems with my dogs on a lead.
I do agree that prong collars are a bit of a problem, but as Jenna said, they do have their uses. They are just too often used by lasy people that don’t want to put the little bit of effort into training a dog for a proper lead.
Hey, I got mine from the Kennel Club. They recommended it because he was such a boisterious dog. Only wears it when we are going walking.
My dogs, being a smaller breed, don’t require that much restraint. However, I have to agree that this is a training device that is recomended by certain trainers & is up to the descretion of the owner and/ or trainer when & how to use it. I am also a horse owner & have no issues about putting a chain thru the halter/ over a horses nose if I have a concern for mine or the horses saftey. Lets get the facts before we critciize or single out a company. I’d like to hear a trainers point of view. Any person that is intentionaly going to abuse an animal doesn’t need a tool to do it.
Well, each trainer has different opinions and whether you use them or not is a matter of preference. I help teach 4-H obedience here and we will very infrequently suggest a pinch collar for a very head strong dog with a small child handler. If a dog is constantly pulling, wearing a choke chain or even a plain buckle collar puts constant pressure on the dog’s neck and throat and many dogs will ignore this constant pressure and cause harm. A pinch collar not only spreads out the pressure so that it’s distributed around the whole neck rather than just on one spot but a dog is also much less likely to constantly pull because of the sharper discomfort of the prongs as opposed to a dull pressure of a buckle collar that can be ignored. Once the dog stops pulling, the child is able to treat and praise for walking calmly and regain control of the dog. In most cases, I do not think these are proper for use on every day walks. Prong collars are a training tool and should be phased out if at all possible. If they are being used regularly as a means of constant control, I believe the training needs to go further until the dog understands what is wanted. Clearly the dog does not know what is acceptable and what is not if the prong collar is being used for extended periods. A prong collar is not my first choice but once other options have been exhausted, sometimes they are the best tool for the job. I also think there are different levels of training. If your options are get the dog under control or you won’t be able to manage it and care for it any longer, then if a pinch collar is going to help then by all means, try it out and use it properly. If you are merely trying to get that next highest title, then I myself would choose a lighter approach. There is always another dog show and another day to train in a more positive manner until you get the result you want.
Pinch collars do not look pretty, but they are not inhumane in my opinion.
We tried slip collars, choke chains and the Gentle Leader before we decided to try a pinch collar. With slip collars and choke chains, my dogs would choke themselves so violently that they would gag and break blood vessels in their own eyes. The Gentle Leader made both of my dogs miserable, and I was afraid I would accidentally injure their necks if I pulled their heads the wrong way at the wrong time. (I only let my chiropractor jerk my head around!)
The pinch collar, though, disciplines them like they discipline each other - with a quick bite on the neck (a correction, not a constant pulling). The ends of the prongs are blunt, not pointed, and my dogs have never been hurt or even yelped while wearing one. The dogs are much rougher on each other’s necks when they play than the pinch collar ever is! We only use it on walks, and we are all much happier. Someday I hope not to need it, but in the meantime, I have found it to be an effective, safe training tool.
I use one on my corgi because she pulls and pulls on walks. My groomer actually recommended it to me. So far it’s working real good and with any luck we can stop using it after another week.
There are most definitely other options for handling an out-of-control dog rather than resorting to such a painful device. Pain does NOT equal a more receptive dog, ever.
Sadly, so many owners find that the prong collar is the “easy-fix” to their problematic canine.
Shame.
I personally use prong collars on my 2 dogs- it is THE only thing that works. It is not an “easy fix” to their behavior problems. I have tried Gentle Leaders, harnesses, positive reinforcement, even hired a private trainer. As a last resort, I tried the prong collar. There are little rubber caps that go on over the prongs so they don’t cause pain. The dogs feel pressure and know I will only put the pressure on when they aren’t behaving politely on a leash. I don’t believe prong collars are for all dogs but mine are extremely large and strong willed, and I need a little extra help making them realize it is me, not them, that should be in control.
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Prong collars and choke chains cause pain. While these methods may work, why do you want to inflict pain on a pet that has only your best interests at heart. There are so many positive reinforsement methods, including the front harness created by Gentil Leader which greatly reduce pulling. There are so many trainers that teach positive training techniques, without pain and with positive reinforsement methods. Please rethink choke chains and prong collars! When you go on a walk with your dog, you want him/her to enjoy their walk which is nearly impossible with the constrictions of the choke chain and especially the prong collar!
Amber
I find it funny how there is evidence that the prong collar can do damage to the vertebrae, yet people still hold it to be HUMANE option.
Yes, I know that a regular buckle collar can do damage, but the fact of the matter is, these tools are being used in lieu of training. I hear people stating that they only use the prong for walks, well — your dog isn’t trained to walk well on leash. If your dog is NOT trained, then it is going to hurt themselves, especially when using a device that’s primary design feature is to cause discomfort in order to make the animal comply. Yes, they are effective, yes it would be a good option for a person who may not be physically able to control a dog in the preliminary time of training. But the prong should ONLY be used in special circumstances, should be fitted correctly, and should be used with the intention of phasing it out permanently once the dog is trained.
If we’re going to talk about the humanenness of the use of a tool such as a prong collar; let’s compare it to say, learning to drive an automobile. An automobile is a great thing that gets us where we want to go. We also know it’s a dangerous thing: when used recklessly, it causes damage to cars, buildings, and of course, to the people on the streets. In order to drive safely and effectively, you need to, alongside having a good instructor help you through, go through these three steps in this order: 1. have an understanding of how to operate the automobile prior to turning it on, 2. start driving the automobile in a safe area, to learn and practice the rules of the road where if you make a mistake, it isn’t going to lead to any dire consequences (say, a parking lot or a driving school enclosed course), and 3. **when you’re ready for it** put what you learned into practice in the real world.
With devices such as prongs, as in all training devices, you need to go in the same order. Too many people are quick to skip to level 3 without going through levels 1 and 2. They just throw one on a dog like a ignorant parent might hand the keys over to an adolescent with no driving experience.
Prior to training a dog with a prong collar, you have to teach it the basics: you do so mainly by showing the dog what to do rather than what not to do: “this is how you start the ignition, this is how you go forward, this is how you stop, make turns, etc.–> This is how you sit, this is how you walk, etc.” You do a lot of explaining, which in the dog world, means either cueing the dog, or if the dog offers it before you even cue it, rewarding/reinforcing it a la clicker training/ operant conditioning. At this point the only time you ever need to teach the dog the concept of consequence is to show that the dog will not get what it wants (such as a treat or a favorite toy) until he’s successful in performing the desired behavior. You start all this stuff in a distraction free environment– you don’t even need to “start the car” to begin to show someone the basic means of how to drive it.
Step two, you drive the car in a safe space. Let the dog experiment with what it learned, and reinforce good behavior. Before you know it, your driver (the dog) will feel good that s/he’s driving well and will not even need extra reinforcement. You can alter your rate of reinforcement until it is totally phased out– the dog is just feeling good about being a good driver. You can even start driving in quiet neighborhoods and very gradually work your way up to the loud, noisy highways.
Step three: you put your car/your dog in the real world (where rewards are not usually readily available) and start letting HIM make the choices without (his knowledge of) your guidance.
** note some people avoid this step altogether by being a constant passenger in the dog’ s car and managing the driving, such as using a gentle leader, sense-ation harness, etc.– which is perfectly OK if you don’t mind that the dog is only driving properly because YOU are there to ensure that he does.**
This is the world of interesting smells, interesting dogs, scary things, yummy things, and poisonous things– a very environmentally rewarding world with which your own treats and praise may not be able to compete. Your dog may or may not need your guidance, but SOME dogs may mistakenly think it’s ok to drive at 95 mph. At this point you need your dog to understand that doing such things can result in a consequence. The key is that you have to have the dog understand that it his his/her choice, and not you (the handler), that led to this consequence. If the dog pulls on the lead, just as if someone is speeding in the car, the dog has to learn that it is more likely to lead to a consequence such as a pinch. Likewise if the dog is constantly garbage-mouthing the ground– for its own good (the sake of not getting sick) you better provide an alternate, more obvious consequence. Better a speeding ticket than a traffic accident!
The idea is to eventually transform “positive punishment**” (the pinch) into negative reinforcement (the lack of pinch due to good behavior) coupled with positive reinforcement (the treat) when the dog thinks first, and then makes the appropriate choice. (** See wikipedia for more information on these terms).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement
It shouldn’t take more than a few speeding tickets (at an appropriately high amount– a $5 speeding ticket ain’t gonna change anything!) to get the dog to stop being a reckless driver, and then a few treats afterwards to reinforce safe driving on the dog training roads.
Happy driving!
Dear Instructor,
Thanks for barking in. You’ve done an excellent job of explaining this side of prong collars and given us all something to think about.
I’m very interested to know how a collar, which applies pressure the the front of a dog’s, neck can chip vertabrates at the back of the neck…? Slight exaggeration?
There seems to be a lot of emotive opinion and speculation of the downsides of prong collars. In my experience, from people who have never actually seen one, let alone actually put one round their own neck and given it a tug…!!!!!
I’ve seen a rotweiler with a harness pull a 16 stone man off his feet. I’ve seen a nose collar rub off fur on several dogs, cause callus on a couple and even cut into a dogs nose on one. I’ve also seen owners pay fortunes on dog training and still break down in tears because their dog is unmanagable. Don’t insult me with the “ah, well, with the right training…” argument, some dogs will not walk a lead nicely with treat (i.e smoke and mirrors) training until the day they die.
A prong collar is a tool, nothing more. It’s use is effective, safe, gentle and can offer instant results.
Considering a dog won’t pull against a prong collar used properly, how is it causing pain? The collars have rounded prongs, it’s like trying to puncture the skin with the blunt end of a pencil.
Personally, I love my dog and wouldn’t see her harmed. I also own and use a prong collar daily and have a healthy, happy dog. After a few thousand £ of training with 4 different trainers, hundreds spent on treats, clickers, harnesses, halti’s with no improvements on waling a leash, I cannot recommend the effectiveness and low physical impact of a prong collar highly enough. Just the sheer erradication in stress for both of us before and during a walk has made using a prong collar invaluable.
I personally give hearsay, speculation and uninformed opinion absolutely no attention. You show me your own dog with a neck ripped open by a prong collar and I’ll stop using and recommending them, until then, I have one, you don’t, and your speculation on it’s effect means nothing. Pretty simple when you think about it.